Career development is an essential yet often overlooked aspect of professional growth. Are you proactively shaping your career, or are you waiting for opportunities to find you?
In this episode of the #Career101Podcast, our host Porschia welcomes guest Janine Esbrand, a former lawyer turned career strategist and executive coach. Together, they explore the vital importance of actively engaging in your own career development.
Janine shares her insights on setting meaningful career goals that resonate with both personal and professional aspirations. They also discuss common challenges in career planning and offer thoughtful strategies to navigate through them.
Moreover, they provide guidance on how to maintain a proactive stance in your career journey amidst life’s inevitable changes.
As a speaker, career strategist, executive coach, and former lawyer, Janine empowers professional women to intentionally develop their careers. Her inspiring TEDx talk and keynotes have motivated thousands to harness their strengths and take charge of their career paths.
What you’ll learn:
- What career development truly entails and why it’s crucial for long-term professional success.
- Common obstacles professionals face in taking control of their career paths.
- Effective strategies for setting and achieving career goals that align with personal values.
- Clues to help you know when it’s time to leave your organization, to further your career development.
- Practical tips for maintaining a proactive approach to career planning and development.
- How organizations can support their employees in pursuing meaningful and intentional career development.
As a thank you for listening to this episode of the Career 101 Podcast, we are sharing our FREE master class – Career 911: Solving the Top 5 Challenges Executives and Professionals Have! It’s a training based on solving the common problems our clients have experienced to reach their goals. You can get access to the master class here!
Resources:
- Episode Transcript
Porschia: [00:00:00] Today, we are talking about career development, taking ownership of your career with Janine Esperant. As a speaker, career strategist, executive coach, podcast host, and former lawyer, Janine is on a mission to help professional women approach their career development and advancement with intention and confidence.
Her TED talk and keynote presentations have inspired thousands to take control of their careers and leverage their strengths to make [00:01:00] true impact in the world. Hi, Janine. How are you today?
Janine: Hi, Portia. I am doing very well. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Porschia: We are excited to have you with us to discuss career development and taking ownership of your career.
But first we want to know a little more about you. So tell me about seven year old Janine.
Janine: Seven year old Janine was very inquisitive, enjoyed learning very much, used to get in trouble a lot for talking too much. I would get my work done and then once it was finished, I’d be bored. So I’d talk to my peers, I’d get in trouble for that.
I was quite opinionated, my mom would say. Sometimes she said argumentative and actually that is the reason why. She suggested I should become a lawyer because she said I had an answer for everything way back then. And so yeah, I guess I was a busy child, [00:02:00] always wanting to learn new things. So always asking why and always wanting to be in the midst of the action.
Porschia: So what was your first job,
Janine: Janine? My first job was working at a cafe when I was about 15. I had what we call over here, cash in hand job, where you’re not actually allowed to work yet, but I was working just getting paid cash. I was terrible at it. I would drop the plates, smash the plates. It didn’t last very long.
I think I was there for less than a month. And when I told the owner that I was leaving, he said, good. I think. You need to find something different to do. I was like, okay. So yeah, that was my first job.
Porschia: So what did you want to be, when you grew up? What were those career aspirations?
Janine: Yeah, so I, when my mom suggested that I should become a lawyer when I was [00:03:00] about seven, nearly eight, I ran with that.
So she planted the seed. And when I was a little bit older, around 15, I remember watching programs like Allie McQueen. Bill and Law and Order, and they made being a lawyer look so, so glamorous. So I was like, yes, that is what I want to do. My mom said I should do it. These programs look fantastic. And so that was my goal, my aspiration.
And I really just worked towards that, figured out what grades I needed to get, what I needed to do in order for me to ultimately become a lawyer when I grew up.
Porschia: Wow. Wow. Very cool. And I remember Allie McBeal and I completely forgot about that show until you just, it was a great show. So tell us, about some highlights or pivotal moments in your career before you started your business.
Janine: So there’s been so many highlights. The first, the main one was being able to go to New York and live there for a year. So after I finished university, I had the opportunity [00:04:00] to take part in an internship program called Mountbatten. And I worked at a law firm in Manhattan. And while I was working, I was also studying for an international business qualification.
That was a real highlight because I got to see what it looked like to practice law in a different country, very different culture. It was quite interesting to me to see how negotiations went in New York versus in London, where everyone’s quite reserved. There’s heated discussions. And I was like, why are they arguing?
And then I realized, no, they’re just negotiating. And so I learned so much during that time I was there for a year. So that was a real highlight. And then when I qualified as a lawyer because it was such a journey to get there, that was a highlight and I got the opportunity to go on a mission trip to East Africa shortly before qualifying.
And that kind of opened my eyes to what impact you’re able to make with your skillset and your expertise. So that was also really good. And yeah, just the [00:05:00] opportunity to work on lots of different types of deals and transactions and work with lots of different people through my legal career was exciting and kept things interesting as I was working as a corporate and commercial lawyer.
Porschia: So you have a very interesting background. How did you decide to start your own business?
Janine: So When I went on the mission trip to East Africa, I would say that was a kind of turning point for me in terms of thinking about what I want to do with my career. So prior to that, the goal was become a lawyer, work your way up, become a partner.
When I went on that trip, it made me see that I could actually do things to help people on more of a impactful personal level. And I came back feeling like Yes, I want to be a lawyer, but I also want to figure out how can I help people on a more personal level. And so I started exploring different things that I could do, and that’s when I came across coaching and realized that there was this whole industry.
And the focus [00:06:00] was serving and helping other people. And that opened up a can of worms for me. I did a certification, and then I started doing some coaching work, did multiple certifications since then. And then I just started my business on the site. So I was practicing law in the daytime, and then running my business in the evening.
And, It was fun to have a portfolio career and to be juggling both and be able to use my different passions and expertise in different ways. But then we got to the point where it was locked down after the pandemic and I was working as legal counsel for a startup business. I had coaching clients at lunch times and I was homeschooling two young children.
And so it got all a little bit much when the kids are running around asking for a snack while I was trying to juggle these other things. So it was at that point that I said, do you know what? I need to pick, am I going to go full time back into lawyering or am I going to go all in on my business? And so I chose to go all in on my business in 2021 and since then [00:07:00] the practice has grown.
I’ve done more in terms of speaking and consulting alongside the coaching work that I do. So the intention wasn’t To go full time at the beginning, it was more like I want to build something on the side. And then it evolved into what it is today.
Porschia: That’s great. That’s great. And I love that you shared about your transition.
When I started fly high coaching, I worked at a consulting firm and stayed for a year and a half. And I think, sharing that you can do both for a while to at least Get your feet wet, as they say in the U. S. Really helps people because I think sometimes people hold themselves back from starting a business because they think that they’ve got to just quit and then cold turkey go into something else and it’s going to be successful and generating all of this money at once.
Or at the beginning, I should say. So thank you for sharing that with us.
Janine: Yeah. Yeah. I think people put a lot of pressure on making it work straight out the gate. And honestly, I learned so [00:08:00] much just building it on the side. And even when I went full time in my business, I was like, Oh, this even feels different from what I thought it was going to feel because I’ve been doing this on the side.
And so giving yourself the mental space to be able to build something without the pressure of I need to make money this month is so helpful for a lot of people.
Porschia: Agreed. So how did you decide to focus on career coaching, Janine?
Janine: Yeah. So I think it was partly because of what I went through. So I initially trained as a life coach and then I got a certification in career coaching and then I did executive coaching certification.
But when I first started coaching people, I was coaching them on anything. Then I realised that my experience as someone who had Gone on maternity leave, had my first baby, and then was deciding what am I going to do with my career. I felt as though that experience must be something that other [00:09:00] people are experiencing.
And so I said, let me take that coaching step. I said, let me take that coaching skill set and support other people who are facing the same challenges as me. So initially it was focused on women who are looking at how they can transition and grow in their careers post motherhood, because that was my experience.
And the questions that kept coming and the people that I was speaking to, it’s all about careers. Like, how do I do what I want to do while still raising a family or how do I get that promotion or how do I, and I realized that I had lots of personal experience with that, that I could use and leverage when I’m supporting people.
And honestly, I just feel that we spend so much time at work, right? The average person spends 90, 000 hours at work in their lifetime. And That time can be wasted when people are unhappy. And so if people understand what they need to do to find fulfillment in their careers, then the time that they’re [00:10:00] living is going to be time well spent.
For me, that is, it’s something that I want to contribute to. I want more people to feel like they are doing work that is fulfilling personally, but then also making an impact wherever they are.
Porschia: Yes, I agree. Obviously that career is really impactful and we’ve discussed career development on the podcast before.
I think it was episode 54. I talked about designing your career plan career development plan, I should say. Why do you think career development is important?
Janine: Yeah, I think it’s important because when, whenever you start out in your career, the person you are and the version of you both personally and professionally is different from the version of you five years in, 10 years in, 15 years in.
And oftentimes I see people coasting. So you may have made a decision to start on a path and then you’re in it and so you’re [00:11:00] just doing it and you’re just going through the motions. But actually you might be changing as an individual in terms of what your goals are, what’s important to you, what your values are.
And so checking in with that and making sure that you’re updating your vision for your career as you grow as a person is important to avoid feeling burnt out, to avoid feeling frustrated, to avoid feeling disengaged. So having a plan is. You really being intentional and proactive about where your career goes and how well your career supports your personal life goals.
Porschia: Very well said. I hope that everyone caught what you mentioned about the coasting part, right? People get comfortable and focusing on career development can help you be aware of that. So Danine, tell us your thoughts on how someone can take ownership of their career.
Janine: Yeah, so I talk a lot about becoming the CEO of your career [00:12:00] and really stepping into the role of the leader in what it is that you’re doing. When you’re, if you think of yourself as the CEO, say you were a CEO of a company, it would be your job to create the vision. for where the company’s going and also your job to map out the strategy for how the company’s going to get there.
And I think every individual should take that approach when it comes to their careers. What is the vision? What are you trying to do? And then think about how you’re going to get there because when you do that, you can avoid just falling into what other people would have you do. You can avoid spending more time in areas that aren’t actually going to move you towards your ultimate goals.
So when you take that ownership, you can be like, okay, I know I want to get here. So in terms of this role, in terms of the type of exposure I need to get in terms of the projects that I want to get involved in, I can ask the right questions and I can make the right request so that the work that I’m doing is actually moving me [00:13:00] towards where I want to go rather than just busy work, spending time doing work, but not actually doing it.
moving in the right direction for you personally. And that direction can also benefit your organization. But it’s about thinking about that and being intentional about that and not just letting, going with the flow and what other people ask you to do, just dictate how you show up and where you spend your time.
Porschia: So to that point, how do you recommend executives and professionals really focus on their career development and a kind of tactical or
Janine: Yeah I love the quote by Stephen Covey, which says, start with the end in mind when you have a plan in terms of a timeframe. So if you’re like, okay, in the next three years, I want to be here in the next five years.
I want to be here. Really take the time to flesh out what that vision looks like. What type of role do you want to be doing? Where do you want to be working? Who do you want to be influencing? How much do you want to be getting paid? What type of organization do you [00:14:00] want to be working in? And when you establish the vision, then you’re able to work backwards from there and say what needs to happen in the short, medium and long term in order for me to make that goal a reality?
And so having that vision helps you to stay on track and focused in terms of what needs to go into your career development plan.
Porschia: What are some clues that people need to perhaps leave an organization to further develop their career?
Janine: Yeah, a big clue is if you’ve been working for an organization for a while and you feel as though you’re being passed up for opportunities I hear so often from clients I work with that, they’ve been working for an organization for a while and then someone else comes in and gets promoted above them or someone else is being recognized when they’re not being recognized.
It may be that this isn’t the right environment for you to thrive. And so that could be a signal that you might need to be looking elsewhere. [00:15:00] Caveat that with you also need to make sure that you’re doing the right things to get noticed and that you’re visible enough for people to see the contribution that you’re making.
But that can be one thing. Also, if there’s a misalignment in values. So if the organization and the way that the organization is going and is being led is contrary to your personal values on what’s important to you, that might be a clue that whilst you might be in the right role, you might not be in the right.
environment. So if you feel that there’s a disconnect between some of the decisions that leadership is making or the decisions that are popping up because of the industry or trends, it might be a time to say, hold on, let me reassess. Is this an alignment? So to give you an example, I worked with a client who worked for An oil and gas company for 11 years, and she was at the stage where she was like, I no longer feel comfortable working in the oil and gas space because I am very much cognizant of, what’s going on in the environment.
And I want to feel, I want to feel proud of that. Of the work that I do and when people [00:16:00] ask me why I don’t want to talk about the industry that I work in and so for that client, the values were no longer aligning with hers. So she was able to make a pivot into a company that focuses on renewable energy and sustainability and use her same skill set, but in another industry.
And so if you’re rubbing up against that disconnect, then that’s a sign that maybe you want to pivot.
Porschia: Yeah, I think those are all great clues that you mentioned and I want to, I think, just elaborate on one of them because I think you were touching on it. But I have seen it more specifically you mentioned If someone isn’t comfortable with the decisions that leadership is making at the organization, that’s definitely one.
And then that can trickle down. It’s that saying that, people quit really their manager they leave their boss, not necessarily the organization. And I have had some clients that were in situations that could be described as toxic. And those are sometimes [00:17:00] obvious, but also.
When they were at an organization for a while and they realize that their manager did not want them to progress or develop in their career. I think this happens a lot to people who are really good doers and they get told, Hey, I want you to stay in this role. If you leave this role, then nobody will do it.
If you want to develop in your career, it’s really not your problem, quite frankly, if they can’t find someone to do your role because you want to move forward. So sometimes I’ve seen clients get stuck with kind of managers who are purposefully keeping them in a certain place.
Janine: Yeah, definitely. And it’s so interesting because sometimes that happens where people are in their role for a very long time under the promise that they’re going to get promoted. And when people finally realize that this is not happening, it’s so quick. It’s so quick for them to be able to transition [00:18:00] somewhere else and often when they hand in their notice or say that they’re about to leave, that’s when the organization is oh, what can we do to help you stay?
And we’ll give you the promotion at which point it’s too late. And so yes, it is very much am I going to grow here? Are they really, are they dangling like the carrot? I’m not really gonna take action on this or is this legitimately a reason for holding me back or, keeping me in the role that I’m in right now.
So yeah that’s such a good point.
Porschia: I agree. I agree. Had clients turn in their notice and then bonuses and promotions and raises come out of nowhere, right? They come from the sky. So yes, to what you mentioned. Janine, what are some tips or recommendations you would give for people who want to develop in their career but don’t know where to start?
Janine: [00:19:00] Yeah, I think thinking about where you want to get to and then doing an audit of what you actually have in your toolkit. So often I see people overlooking some of the skills that they’ve acquired and the experience that they’ve had, particularly if they feel as though that experience was a long time ago and it’s no longer valid.
So take the time to really do an audit and say, what do I have to bring to the table? And. If you identify that there are some gaps in your knowledge [00:20:00] and understanding that you need to fill so that you can get to where you want to get to, think about what is the most efficient and effective way to do that.
And the reason why I say efficient is Sometimes people will be like, Oh, I need to learn this thing. So I’m going to go get another degree. I’m going to go back to school. And it’s wait, hold on, wait, we’re in 2024. There’s so many ways to gain information. There’s so much knowledge at our fingertips.
You don’t necessarily have to go back and get a degree to plug a knowledge gap. So really considering what are the resources that are available to me to help me to be prepared for the type of move that I want to make. And then Do I need support? Do I need to hire a coach? Do I need to work with someone so that they can help me to draw out the expertise that I have and position that for the type of next step that I want to make?
Because sometimes the positioning piece is the biggest piece that people struggle with and the piece that can make the most difference in terms of positioning you to land that next role or make that next move. [00:21:00]
Porschia: I love everything that you said. I Thought of, a question that someone, might have.
And because I’ve had clients ask me around, okay, so I know I need to think about, that audit and figure out what’s missing in my skillset or my knowledge. But they’re like, I don’t even know how to do that. And so we actually are gonna have an episode come out on informational interviewing.
. Someone, thought that your point about the audit was great, but they still felt like, Hey, I don’t know how to do that on my own. You can definitely do an informational interview of, someone in a role that you want, or just someone with an interesting career and kind of figure out where those gaps are for yourself.
Janine: Yeah. So having conversations with other people and finding out what did you do? What skillset did you have? What background did you have? And then when people are sharing with you their journey, you can say, Oh, okay. I’m noticing that if I’ve spoken to three or four people that are in this role, everybody is saying that they’ve done this particular thing, or they’ve had this particular [00:22:00] exposure.
So therefore, if that’s where I want to go, then getting that same experience under my belt is going to be helpful. So yeah, absolutely. Informational interviews, I call them golden nugget conversations because they can literally like one 20 minute conversation can drop a nugget that can transform your whole career development plan.
Porschia: I love the golden nugget conversations. I hope everyone thinks about informational interviews like that. So from your perspective, what are some of the biggest challenges you’ve seen executives and professionals have with their career development?
Janine: I think. Number one is being busy. Being so busy in the role that you’re in right now and the demands that you have are taking up your time, that you don’t have the space or you don’t prioritize the time and space to think about what it is that you want.
And then beyond thinking, to take the action. So when you’re thinking about [00:23:00] executives, it’s like you’re fighting fires, you’ve got so much going on that at the end of the day, you’re exhausted and do you have time to pay attention to your own career development? And I think that’s that is a challenge, but it is something that we want to be thinking about.
You should be operating on two tracks. Yes, I am doing my day job, I’m doing the work that I need to do, but I’m also being strategic and this kind of goes back to the idea of being the CEO of your career if you are a CEO you’re going to have time where you are doing the work you’re in your business and there’s time where you’re working on your business and I think it’s the same as a career professional there should be time where you’re showing up and you’re doing your work but then also time where you’re working on your career where you’re really thinking strategically about the moves that you’re making the steps that you’re taking and the resources that you’re leveraging so that you can move forward because You can be busy, but busy doing the wrong things, going down the wrong path.
Porschia: Oh, yes, that is definitely well, one [00:24:00] I’ve been guilty of that. I have definitely starred in that movie before. But I see that a ton with our clients, they’re just too busy to think about anything to get ideas to get insights. And so they’re definitely not operating on those two tracks that you mentioned.
So
Janine: yeah, and I think that one of my favorite sayings is slow down to speed up, because I think we’re moving so fast that ultimately you’re moving, but are you moving forward? Whereas if you slow down enough, and you do the planning, and you are strategic, you’re going to be able to leapfrog where you would have ended up, so I think that busyness is, is a key thing to tackle. And then one other thing I’d mention is just not being intentional about growing your network and cultivating relationships. I think sometimes people think of networking very surface level where it’s I need to go to events. I need to hand out business cards.
I need to have conversations. When actually [00:25:00] networking is all about relationship building. So what types of relationships are you building? How are you building them? When are you building them? Regardless of whether you’re an introvert, extrovert, There’s ways that you can find to build relationships that align with you and that feel comfortable.
And so I think spending the time to do that before you need the relationships is key. Because people will be like, I need a job. I’ve got a network. It’s like you should have been networking before so that you can call on your network now that you need a job. And so it should be a consistent thing. So I think finding a way to weave that into how you show up.
Is going to be helpful.
Porschia: Yeah, I definitely agree with all of that. So career development can seem like a very big topic to think about, to handle. How does someone know if they’re making progress towards their career development?
Janine: Yeah, I think it’s having a regular cadence where you’re checking in with what it is that you’re doing.
So I like using 90 [00:26:00] day planning where you at the beginning of 90 days, you say, in the next three months, where is it that I want to be? You can pick three core areas of focus, no more than three, and say I want to be, say it’s okay, I want to get a promotion. So I want to get a promotion in the next 90 days, then you ask yourself if that’s where I want to be in the next 90 days, what needs to happen in the first 30 days, and then the first, the next 30 days, so the first 30 days, 60 days, in order for that to be something that is possible.
And when you break it down that way, it helps you to see what do I need to focus on now? So it’s if you want to be promoted in 90 days, what needs to happen in 30 days, like you need to be having some kind of conversations with the right types of people, or at least know who you should be talking to, to make your desires known.
Then like within 60 days, are you setting up meetings? What are you doing? And that allows you to have a targeted focus and almost like a checklist where you’re like, okay, I set that goal. So it’s the end of 30 days. Did I do what I was supposed to do? Did I break that [00:27:00] down to on a weekly level? What am I supposed to do in week one, week two, so that you have like tangible, actionable things that you can be doing, small bite sized chunks.
But ultimately everything that you’re doing is moving you towards it. towards that goal. So even if it’s not the 90 day planning system, having some kind of plan and metric that you are tracking against so that you know that you’re moving forward rather than oh, do I feel like I’m moving forward?
Because sometimes our feelings can lie to us. So let’s have some like external data that we can refer to that can tell you.
Porschia: Yeah I definitely agree. Sometimes our feelings can definitely lie to us, Janine. And what I have had to tell clients is that, psychologically, we can all fall into that, right?
We can think that we’re, doing something or think that we’re making progress and not necessarily be taking actions or moving forward to see the results that we want. Yeah.
Janine: Yeah. I always, when I [00:28:00] think about this, I remember a conversation I had with my coach once and she had sent me, things that I needed to do since our last session.
And I came back and she was like, so how did we get on? And I was like, Oh, do you know, I’ve been so busy this week. And then when we ran down the list of things I was supposed to be doing, I hadn’t done any of it. So she was just like, busy doing what? What have you actually been doing? I was like, I promise I have been working, but actually I wasn’t working on the things that were going to move the needle.
And I think that’s the key thing. If you have clear checkpoints, you can make sure that the busy work doesn’t take over because you can’t account for it. Sometimes the whole week can go by and it’s I don’t know what I’ve been working on. If you’re focused on your priority tasks first. You can make sure that they get done.
Porschia: One consultant that I worked with in the past, the way she described that as she would say, are you focused on gold stars or gold bars and gold stars, meaning yeah, the stars that you get when you’re like in kindergarten or [00:29:00] first grade, second grade, that you did a good job. Or are you focused on those tasks that are going to get gold bars into the bank account?
Janine: Wow. I love that.
Porschia: So tell us more about Career Change Makers.
Janine: Yeah, so Career Change Makers is my coaching and consulting business. It is I love it. It’s the way that I support, primarily women, I do work with some men as well, to take ownership of their careers, to navigate transition, to figure out where it is that they want to be.
Sometimes that means them transitioning out. Sometimes that means they’re moving up into leadership positions, but really giving them the support guidance and tools that are required to shift in their careers. And of course we have a podcast that we run as well, where we share actionable career change tips each and every week.
And then we also go into organizations and support them with their people development and career development initiatives so that we can. We can make sure that people are supported within their [00:30:00] companies, as well as supporting them on an individual basis.
Porschia: I love it. I love it. Janine, you are doing great work.
We’ll be providing a link to your website and other social channels and our show notes. So people can find you online, but what is the best way for someone to get in touch with you?
Janine: Yeah, so I’m always on LinkedIn and if you’re not on LinkedIn and you’re thinking about careers, you should totally be on LinkedIn.
So connect with me over there, Janine S Brand. And also I have an email series called Prepare to Pivot where I share actionable tips. So if you’ll probably put the link in the show notes, but it’s careerchangemakers. com forward slash prepare to pivot. So if you want to get actionable tips on how you can be moving forward in your career, that’s the best place to go and sign up.
Porschia: Perfect. Perfect. Janine, I want to ask you this question because I love to ask other coaches this question. What is your definition of career success?
Janine: My definition of career success is building a career that is aligned to [00:31:00] who you are as a person and allows you to make the most impact and experience the most fulfillment in your career.
Porschia: Love it. So final question that I asked all of our guests, how do you think executives or professionals can get a positive edge in their career?
Janine: I think that you leaning into who you are, the strengths that you have and leveraging them. You are the only person that has your blend of experience, expertise, and background on the planet.
There are close to 8 billion people on the planet. And so just leaning into your uniqueness and recognizing that you can leverage that to really make a difference. And. Own it, right? Own it and show up as though you are the only person who can do things the way you can do it.
Porschia: So Janine, you’ve shared a lot [00:32:00] of insights with us today, and I’m sure our listeners can use it to be more confident in their careers.
We appreciate you being with us. Thank you so much. It’s been so fun. [00:33:00]
