Navigating the fear of failure is a crucial skill for professionals in any field. Yet, many struggle with this fear, which can impede career progress and personal development. Are you holding yourself back due to the fear of failing?
In this episode, you will dive deep into understanding and managing the fear of failure! Our host and CEO, Porschia, alongside our guest, Harsha Borelesa, will explore how this fear manifests in professional settings and what strategies can be used to overcome it.
They will discuss practical ways to reframe failures as stepping stones to success and highlight the role of resilience in achieving career milestones. The conversation will also touch on how organizations can foster an environment that encourages risk-taking and supports employees in facing their fears.
Harsha Boralessa is a CFA charter holder and chartered accountant with a degree from the London School of Economics. With over 15 years in investment banking and “Big 4” advisory roles, he hosts the “Reframe & Reset Your Career” podcast, drawing on his neuroscience and psychology interests to guide career development strategies. A former junior cricket player for Middlesex and Essex, Harsha briefly went pro, underscoring his diverse background and dedication to personal growth.
What you’ll learn:
- What fear of failure is and how it impact professionals in all industries
- The common triggers and manifestations of fear of failure in the workplace
- Strategies to reframe and overcome the fear of failure for career advancement
- Techniques for building resilience and a positive mindset in professional settings
- How organizations can support employees in managing fear and fostering a culture of risk-taking
- The role of leadership in setting an example and encouraging growth through challenges
As a thank you for listening to this episode of the Career 101 Podcast, we are sharing our FREE master class – Career 911: Solving the Top 5 Challenges Executives and Professionals Have! It’s a training based on solving the common problems our clients have experienced to reach their goals. You can get access to the master class here!
Resources:
- Episode Transcript
Porschia: [00:00:00] Today we are talking about mindset and fear of failure with Harsha Borelesa. Harsha Borelesa is a CFA charter holder, chartered accountant, and graduate of the London School of Economics. He has worked for over 15 years in front office and advisory roles in investment banking and the big four accounting firms.
He hosts the reframe and reset your career podcast, which was inspired by his passion for neuroscience [00:01:00] and psychology. His aim is to empower the listener to take a more strategic view of their career development. Harsha became interested in personal and performance development through playing cricket for the Middlesex.
And Essex junior teams from the age of 10 to 19. He was paid for playing in one match for the Essex second team. So technically he is a professional athlete with a very short career. Hi, Harsha. How are you today?
Harsha: I’m great, Portia. Thanks for inviting me onto your show. Really looking forward to our discussion.
Porschia: Yes, I am looking forward to talking about fear of failure with you as well, but first we want to know a little more about you. So tell me about seven year old Harsha.
Harsha: I was thinking about this when looking through the questions that we were going to talk about. And initially I thought. I think what was I doing at seven years old?
That’s quite a long time ago. But actually [00:02:00] I looked back and that was actually quite a pivotal year for my life because there were two big things that happened. Firstly, my parents moved house and I changed school and the new school that I went to the headmaster really liked me. He thought Yeah, I was somebody who had talent academically, and he was always really pushing me forward.
And so I ended up essentially being in two schools for the next 11 years. And that was partly due to him believing me in me seeing something in me academically. And I think the lesson there is that hopefully There are people there in your life who will see something in you, believe in your talents and hopefully push you forward, but you never know where they will come from because my parents weren’t well connected, we weren’t particularly affluent.
There are always people I think in life who will give you a chance. You just have to keep your mind open and look out for them. [00:03:00] And then the second. a sort of pivotal thing in my life at that point was that’s when my father introduced me to cricket and we started playing and like a lot of children, your father plays with you in the back garden.
Then he saw that I had a talent and then it developed a momentum from that point. So essentially for the next, 12, 13 years. That’s pretty much what I did. Most summers on winters as well training. So those were the two very significant moments in my life. And I think also when you play sport, it gives you a lot of things outside the sport itself, like self confidence teamwork, but we can go into that later.
Porschia: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, You said a lot of great things, Harsha. To your point, I think it is great, especially as children, when you have that teacher, that principal, that figure that’s outside of your family that sees something in you. And family is great, but [00:04:00] when someone who’s not related to you sees that and pours into you, that is, I think life changing for a lot of people.
So I’m glad to hear that you had that. Someone saw your talent early on. And to your point about sports, I completely agree. I think that playing sports really helps with, to your point, the teamwork, the leadership communication, but I think also just the motivation and mindset, which is what we’re going to talk about today.
I know. And you are a former professional athlete, but I think, obviously professional athletes have, I think a different mindset in terms of preparation, dedication resilience. That mental fortitude to keep going. I think even people who play sports for a long time get that too. So I played basketball from third grade to 10th grade and, just that diligence and preparing and all of that, I think comes into the mindset conversation too.
So tell us about some highlights or [00:05:00] pivotal moments in your career. I guess before you started your podcast and really diving into career development.
Harsha: There was one pretty significant moment. So after university, like a lot of people you’re looking for work, you’re trying to find get that first graduate job.
And I think it’s important if you can get a one with a decent firm that does set you up, but that doesn’t mean that if you don’t get it, your career. Doesn’t progress, but I was very mindful. I wanted to work with one of the big four accounting firms, and I’d interviewed quite a few of them.
And although I’d got through to maybe the second round for whatever reason, it just wasn’t quite working out. And then I managed to get a an interview with Ernst Young EY. And essentially that was my last shot to Get a job with the one of the big four accounting firms. And what happened, Portia, it was quite funny because before the actual interview itself, it was like a half day session, you got to meet some of the staff who would be interviewing you.
And there’s a list of managers who are assigned to each [00:06:00] interviewee. And I looked at the list and I thought, ah, I saw who I’m who’s going to interview me. So I thought, look, I’ve got to make a good impression. Go and meet them, have a chat with them. And actually the person I, my person wasn’t there.
So I just started speaking to somebody else and had a great conversation with her. It got on really well with her. I was thinking, I wish I was being interviewed by her. But yeah, for whatever reason, she wasn’t on the list. Then when it actually came to the interview, I was interviewed by her. And it just does show how maybe I misread the list or maybe she fixed it that I ended up being interviewed by her.
But it just shows you need those small bits of luck to have outsized impacts on your life or your career. And I’m a big believer that luck is, everywhere to some extent. And you just have to keep your eyes open. And clearly look if you’re born in a difficult situation or you’re having family problems or whatever, clearly you can’t just say it’s [00:07:00] luck.
I can’t do anything about it, but so there’s structural issues, but I do believe for a lot of people that sometimes they maybe may not keep their eyes open enough for the opportunities that are around. So I’m a big believer in just try to be positive, try and always look around and just see there may be things that you’re not picking up or not seeing, but if you are a bit more open minded, you may find that those opportunities are around.
Porschia: Yeah, absolutely. Having your eyes open for the opportunities that are out there is so important. What would you say has been your biggest career challenge so far, before starting the podcast?
Harsha: I think when I was training at EY, we had to obviously take exams and also work. Luckily we did get a lot of study leave, but still I think combining studying and working, that was quite [00:08:00] difficult because clearly you want to, put in a lot of hours at work, but then also you have to be mindful about there are exams that you have to take, you have to keep on top of your studies.
So I think that process of studying and working also when I did some treasury exams, I was studying and working at the same time. I think that was, a little bit tricky, but I think if you’re disciplined and you apportion the right amount of time to both and maybe your social life takes a backseat but you know that it’s not going to last forever.
And I think sometimes where people go wrong is that they, they look at the short term and think, Oh, this is really difficult. I’ve got no life. But if you think it’s going to be for a finite amount of time, and then try and think about your future self. and hopefully your future self will thank you for giving up a bit of time now to get the benefit later on.
It’s delayed sort of gratification in a way.
Porschia: Yeah, and I love how you put that, Harsha, [00:09:00] because that is a big challenge, I think, that comes up for people in their career. Should I dedicate time to studying for this special training or this certification this license or this degree?
And trying to see how that will fit in and sticking with it. to achieve the result that you might want. Great points. What would you say motivated you to start your podcast?
Harsha: That’s an interesting question, Portia, because for me, it I became interested in neuroscience.
science and psychology. And because I was interested in decision making, how we can try and maximize and improve our decision making. And then it was through that, that I came across Daniel Kahneman and, the work he was doing in system one and system two, the sort of the instinctive thinking and the more measured thinking.
And for our listeners, I would say Definitely [00:10:00] check out his work. It’s fantastic. So from that, looking at decision making, I became interested in neuroscience and really trying to understand a bit about the brain, how the brain works. I started going to some lectures purely out of interest, trying to almost improve myself.
And then I gained this knowledge and I thought, how can I try and share it with other people almost try and build a community. And that’s how I basically started the podcast through, a love of this area and then try to connect with other similar minded people.
Porschia: I love that.
I love your podcast too, Harsha. I, when you say the neuroscience and psychology, and I’ve listened to some episodes and I love how you really pull those in together. Now, in all fairness, listeners know that I’m a nerd. So, if you’re into that role
Harsha: of Yeah,
Porschia: but I love your show. So I guess when you were [00:11:00] thinking about the neuroscience and psychology and starting the podcast, why did you decide to focus on career development as part of your area of expertise?
Harsha: I was thinking what are the two big things in life? It’s personal relationships and careers. Now, I’m not a personal relationship expert, but I do know something about careers. And what I find really interesting about careers is that, clearly there are some. Elements like, doing your CVs, how do you prepare for interviews?
And those are obviously very important and there’s a real skill in that, but I believe there’s a lot of work that one has to almost do on the inside, work from the inside out and almost be strategic about your career trying to figure out where your motivation comes from. Because, for some people, they think, Oh, it’s all about money and power and fame.
But actually, those are things that it’s very difficult to sustain a long career. If all you’re doing is focusing on that. I’m not saying it can’t [00:12:00] be done. But I’m thinking, I was thinking, okay, take the neuroscience and psychology, and apply it to the career your career development, whether it’s looking for jobs or trying to get that promotion.
And there are a lot of strategies and techniques that I think you can apply. Now, clearly I’m not a psychologist. I’m not a neuroscientist, but as a lay person who likes these things, I think, There are a lot of things that you can apply from those areas to your career, things like mindset, which we’re going to come on to later.
Things like reframing. A simple example is that say you don’t get the job you want, or you don’t get the promotion you want. That doesn’t mean that all the work that you’ve done up to that point is wasted. You need to reframe it and say actually I’ve built up this skill level, this knowledge.
Okay. I may not have got the job or the promotion now, but clearly that is going to hold me in good stead in the future. And hopefully that [00:13:00] will kick in later on at some point in time.
Porschia: Yeah. I love that. And I guess that’s how you got the great name there, reframe and reset your career. And I love what you said about really working from the inside out.
And I think that, applies so much to mindset, what we’re going to talk about today. But before we, just. get too deep in the mindset. I want to know what is your definition of mindset?
Harsha: I was thinking about this and I think probably I’m going to steal from Carol Dweck who essentially came up with the whole concept of mindset.
And I found this quote, which I think sums it up probably a lot better than I can. And what she says is in a growth mindset, People believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work. Brains and talent are just the starting point. This view creates a love of learning and a resilience that is essential for great accomplishment.
Now, I think [00:14:00] Carol Dweck can say it a lot better than I can, but I think there are a couple of things I just want to pick up. Clearly, I think If you’re trying to achieve excellence in an area, you do need to have a base level of talent and knowledge, but that doesn’t mean that’s enough. You basically have to put in the hard work.
She says you have to be dedicated and your abilities can be improved all the time. And also, I like this idea of resilience that if you do accomplish a setback, it, she always talks about not yet. You haven’t, I’m here now, but I can get to another level in the future. And I do think that is important in your career and in life.
Sometimes it’s just not yet, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t get there in, in the future. Yeah, I’m a big fan of Carol Dweck and actually she was one of the reasons that I got into this area because I remember the first, Personal development seminar, [00:15:00] which inspired my interest in this area.
She was featured and I’d never come across growth mindset or her work. And I just find her work very inspiring.
Porschia: Yeah, I agree. Many professionals and executives struggle with fear in different aspects of their life and career. From your perspective, how can a fear of failure show up in someone’s life?
Harsha: Say you go into an interview and I’m sure we’ve all felt this. You get those butterflies in your stomach. You’re thinking, why am I putting myself through this process? And sometimes it’s just that fear of failure that you’ve got so close to getting that. Dream job you’re thinking too much my god, what if it doesn’t go?
What if they hate me? What if I get rejected and it’s that fear of failure, which I think almost paralyzes us. So I think it’s important to almost acknowledge it and say that’s normal. I [00:16:00] think it is normal to get these feelings of nervousness and fear. But what for me personally, if I’m in that situation, I try to reframe it and say, okay I, there are these nerves, but actually look at the position I’m in.
I’m maybe one or two interviews away from my dream job. So I think it’s about looking at the situation and looking at it in a different way. And rather than saying this is a a tense, hard situation I’m going into, it’s actually an opportunity for them to see you in your true colors. And actually you have the ability to present yourself in hopefully the best way possible.
So I think it’s about trying to change the way you perceive the situation. And it’s almost as if you change your perception of the situation, you can change your reality potentially.
Porschia: Yeah. So I think, the whole idea of reframing and changing your perception to your point [00:17:00] is really important.
And that’s a great way to think about, addressing fear of failure. What do you think are some other ways that people might address their fear of failure?
Harsha: I think sometimes say, if you’re going to give a speech or a presentation or even do a podcast interview, what you can do is rehearse and think about, okay.
So say with a presentation or a speech, you can prepare, give a number of mock presentations or mock speeches. And it’s like a sportsman, the more you practice, the better you become at it. And then I think your words, rather than you just reading them. They become part of you and it becomes much more authentic and you really own the material.
And I think that’s when the real magic happens. So even with, say, with this podcast interview, you shared some of the questions beforehand. So I had an idea of what was coming up, but actually, and clearly I did some preparation, but actually when you’re in the moment, other [00:18:00] points come to you. And that’s, I think when the really good.
Bits of a podcast interview come out when you’re not thinking too much, but you just go with the flow to some extent.
Porschia: Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve worked with a lot of clients that have had many different types of fears that showed up. around work. Like you were saying before, whether it be interviews or giving a presentation of some kind and a lot of other things.
How do you think understanding more about your mindset can help people with fear?
Harsha: [00:19:00] I think it’s that as we were talking about, it’s understanding the situation, knowing that you’re, this is not an uncommon thing. I think when you get closer to your goal you clearly get nervous because I think, somebody I was talking about was saying that if you don’t care about something, then you don’t, you’re not really bothered whether it goes well or not.
But say you’re going for a promotion or a presentation or giving a speech where you’re invested in it, then it becomes much more important to you. So clearly I think the more, the higher the stakes, then the higher the the sense of the disappointment [00:20:00] when you do fail. So I think just accepting that the higher you go up in anything, there’s clearly going to be, if you don’t get what you’re going for, then there, there will be that sense of loss.
But I think in a way that’s part of life that, the higher you go up in a company if you’re, from a sporting analogy, if you’re, Getting closer to the final or the winning a title, winning a Superbowl then. And remember you say this in the Superbowl or the final, any one team can win.
So you’re going to have 50 or 60 players who are naturally going to be disappointed. So I think in that situation, just understanding that think about the context that actually, and going back to reframing that if you got to the Superbowl or the NBA finals, you’re one of. two of 30 teams or 32 teams who’ve made it, which is an amazing achievement.
So even if you do lose, clearly you’re going to be upset, but you think about the achievement and similarly [00:21:00] with work, if you are going for a big promotion or you’re going for a an amazing new job, they’re probably going to be 50, a hundred candidates who are going for that. So if you get to the last.
Five or two. That’s a huge achievement. So I think it’s thinking about what you have done well and what has got you to that point. And then even if you don’t get the job or you don’t win the final, you have done some incredible things, which have got you there. So hopefully the next final or the next job, you can use those things to hopefully propel you to the job or the you want.
Porschia: Yeah, I agree. And When you were talking I thought about something that I learned in coach training, and then I share with a lot of our clients and it’s to your point about reframing, but it’s the idea that our thoughts create our emotions, which then create our actions or behaviors. And so if you are just [00:22:00] thinking, negative thoughts or maybe fearful thoughts, you’re really creating some of those emotions that then lead into actions and behaviors. But to your point of, if you can reframe that early, then you can perhaps avoid some of those, negative emotions or fearful emotions.
Harsha: It’s like that sort of the self talk, the negative self talk. I think most people do have that, that there’s something in the back of your mind saying how did I get here? I’m an imposter. I shouldn’t have this role or whatever it is. And I think, you almost have to accept that sometimes your mind is going to play those tricks on you, accepting it and saying actually look at the reality.
I’ve got these qualifications, or I’ve got this experience or, whatever it is. And I think for most people, they probably don’t, I wouldn’t say value them, but that you need to [00:23:00] focus on your accomplishments. And I’m not saying in a narcissistic megalomaniacal way, but actually saying I’ve got a degree, or I’ve got these certifications, or I’ve got this amount of experience.
So clearly I do deserve that promotion, or I do deserve to be interviewed along with these other candidates. And sometimes it’s that negative self talk, or there’s limiting beliefs, which stop our career progression. And I think that we have to look out for that and not almost stop ourselves from moving forward in our careers and our lives.
Because there are lots of opportunities out there. And I think sometimes, and you’ve probably seen this bush as well, sometimes the higher up you go, you think, wow, those people are going to be amazing. They’re going to be so clever, but actually when you get to that level, you think they’re not really that much different from me.
But sometimes people can disguise it or speak, talk a [00:24:00] good game or appear to be a lot cleverer than they really are using fancy words. But yeah. So I think, yeah, don’t don’t sell yourself short and do value the things that you have done and appreciate them.
Porschia: That is a great segue. Harsha. I wanna know from your perspective, what are some of the biggest challenges you’ve seen professionals and executives have with their mindset?
Harsha: I think as we were talking about, I think it’s those limiting beliefs. And I’ve been guilty of that myself thinking, almost you stop yourself from going for that job or you’re going for that promotion or changing companies, because you think, those people will be so much better than me, or my talents aren’t good enough.
Now, clearly, I think you have to be realistic about yourself. But sometimes I think we are too hard on ourselves. And I [00:25:00] may say with a job spec, if you’re looking at it, if you say hit 70 percent of the potential requirements, Why not apply? Because most people are not going to hit everything. And also somebody was telling me the other day that, look, if you can do everything that job requires now, what challenges are you going to have in the future?
And sometimes employers just put these ridiculous things in the job specs. But if that person had everything, they’d be probably going for a job, which has paid 50 percent more or at a higher level, or you never know. So I think don’t stop yourself. From trying and reach out to people and ask them to be honest with you.
If you’ve got a trusted friend or a colleague ask them, what do they think? Do they think it’s worthwhile? You apply for that job or you changing roles, going to another firm. So don’t limit yourself. Because there [00:26:00] are opportunities, which probably are great fits, but you don’t want to stop yourself from going for them.
Porschia: So let’s say that someone takes a big risk and it quote unquote fails. How do you recommend people manage failure in their careers? I
Harsha: think that’s a great question. And I think two things there, firstly, going back to Carol Dweck, we can just say not yet. Okay. I tried my best. It didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean that in the future I can’t get that job or an equivalent job at another company.
And then the second thing I think is and this is more from a picked up from my sporting life is that you just have to accept that failure quote, unquote, whatever failure means to you. That is part of life and that is part of sport and you’re not going to win every time. So for me, in cricket, I was a [00:27:00] batter and say three out of 10, seven out of 10 situations I experienced failure.
Because that those are the numbers. It’s like baseball. I think if you have a 3 out of 10 in baseball, that’s a really good career. So it’s about becoming comfortable with failure. And almost uncomfortable being comfortable with uncertainty and things going wrong. So I think now clearly you can’t develop that overnight and just say I need to accept failure overnight.
But it’s something I think if you’re aware of the world, the way the world works that I think once you’ve left school and university there, it’s a much more controllable. If I do the work and I hit the pass mark, then I’ll pass the exam. I get, I’ll get my A or whatever grade I’m looking for.
But I think in the world of work it’s much more fluid. There are other things that are going on there. And I think you just have to accept that not everybody can win, but that doesn’t mean that the work you’ve put in [00:28:00] that isn’t going to help you later on down the line with another job interview or with another promotion.
So I think it’s just trying to say to yourself, okay, I failed, but then give yourself a chance to grieve. Clearly we don’t want to be grieving for years, but maybe, a few days or a week or acknowledge the fact that you’ve put in the work, you’ve tried really hard, but for whatever reason, it hasn’t worked out.
And sometimes it could be that you haven’t got the job because maybe you’re too qualified. Maybe the person interviewing you. thinks you’re a threat to them, that they hire somebody else, or maybe your compensation is too high. You just never know for whatever the reason is that you don’t get the job.
And I think I don’t think there’s any point overthinking things. I think just subject said it hasn’t worked out. Maybe grief for a little bit. Yeah. Have some self care, but then start [00:29:00] again and say to yourself what I’ve accomplished in this interview situation or the promotion is great. And I can use this later on down the line in another interview or job promotion.
Porschia: Yeah, I love what you said. And in that point where someone is moving through that one quote, and this is a sports quote that you would probably appreciate Harsha that sticks out to me and that I think of is you miss 100 percent of the shots you don’t take by the great Wayne Gretzky. If you don’t take the shot you’re obviously not going to make the shot.
Potentially failing is part of how it goes on that quest to achieve what you want. So tell us more about you and everything that you have going on.
Harsha: So at the moment, Portia, my focus is very much on the [00:30:00] YouTube channel, trying to build them up. So I’m almost treating it like a startup that effectively I’m the CEO, founder of a one man startup, and essentially try to build a brand and create the content.
But really, this has come out of a love for. neuroscience, psychology, and its intersection with career and personal development. And ideally what I’d like to do is build a community where we’re all trying to move in the same direction and essentially empower people. Because I think hopefully what I’m trying to do is speak to credible people, professors, academics, authors who have interesting ideas.
And I’m not saying. every idea will be applicable to every one of our listeners. But I think it’s up to our listeners, hopefully, to say look, this may resonate with me, that may resonate with me, take on the things that they think are [00:31:00] interesting, and then incorporate them into their own lives. So I started off with careers because clearly, I’ve worked, I’ve achieved some decent things in my career.
But I think with personal development is not only applicable to your career, but there are so many different aspects which you can apply to in your entire life. In your personal life, the way you deal with your finances the way you deal with your friends, your family.
Now, clearly I’m not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and this is not a personal finance show, but I do think there are interesting things which we can take from careers and then apply it to other areas. In our lives.
Porschia: Yeah, I agree. And I love that about your show, Harsha, how you make things actionable.
I think it’s great to learn about the neuroscience, but then also think about how does this really show up for me or how might this show up for me? So great. We’ll be providing a [00:32:00] link to your website and other social channels in our show notes. So people can find you online. But what is the best way for someone to get in touch with you?
Harsha: LinkedIn is the best thing Porsche, because I’m on there quite a lot should be a connection request and I’d be very happy to connect and chat and and obviously I’ve got my podcast and YouTube channel where you can see the content and hopefully some of it will resonate with your listeners.
Porschia: Yeah, I’m sure that it will. So now Harsha, I want to ask you the final question that I ask all of our guests and it is, how do you think executives or professionals can get a positive edge in their career?
Harsha: I’ve been thinking about this quite a lot, Portia, and I think if you can create content, if you say a podcast, a blog, a video, and use that to create your [00:33:00] personal brand, I think that is very powerful.
Because I think what you want to try and do is to show how you stand out from the rest of the crowd, how, what makes you unique. And I think we all have something which makes our ourselves unique because clearly I don’t have your life. You don’t have my life. And I think sometimes people are looking around for that.
Spark of genius. But actually, if you just look at your own backstory and think, how did I get here? What are the interesting things that have happened to me along the way? But also with thought leadership your own journey informs how you view the world. So I think it’s important to try and share your ideas create content because then what you’re doing is you’re building your digital footprint.
So say for the first time somebody wants to find something about you, Portia, they’ll do a Google search or go on LinkedIn. And then if you have this raft of information, if [00:34:00] you have comments or articles or create a podcast. They can see that, Portia, she comes across well, she’s a nice person.
She’s articulate. She’s a good communicator. That’s a very powerful thing. And so if you’re going for an interview, they would see all these things and almost, um, they will think good things about you even before you’ve arrived at the interview. So almost half the battle is won.
And I do think if you can create content and it doesn’t have to be a podcast, it doesn’t have to be a video, but anything just so that people can get a flavor of you before they actually meet you in person, that does help to you to distinguish yourself from your peers and from the competition.
Porschia: I definitely agree. I definitely agree. Harsha, you have shared a lot of wisdom with us today, and I’m sure that our listeners use it to be more confident [00:35:00] in their careers. We appreciate you being with us.
Harsha: Oh, it’s my pleasure, Portia. And thank you once again for inviting me onto your show. And I hope the listeners have got lots of value from the things that we’ve discussed.
And also sorry, I forgot to add, I do enjoy your show as well. Yeah it’s a great show. So keep up the good work. [00:36:00]
