Mid-Career can be defined as a period of five to 10 years into a professional career. Knowing how to navigate this time takes great skill and can yield many rewards through the achievement of goals and continued advancement of competencies. Navigating mid-career changes effectively sets professionals up for success in their current roles and aids progression into more senior positions.
If you’re a professional who feels stuck in your current role, then gear up as Porschia will be talking about the set of tools and tips to swiftly navigate mid-career changes, along with John Neral. John has been developing talent for over 25 years. John has served as an educator, instructional coach, supervisor, educational administrator, and training director. He owns John Neral Coaching, LLC, where he helps mid-career professionals figure out what’s next for their careers.
What you’ll learn:
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- How to transition as a mid-career professional
- What you need to avoid common mistakes that mid-career professionals make
- Ways to find meaning and purpose in your career
As a thank you for listening to this episode of the Career 101 Podcast, we are sharing our FREE master class – Career 911: Solving the Top 5 Challenges Executives and Professionals Have! It’s a training based on solving the common problems our clients have experienced to reach their goals. You can get access to the master class here!
Episode Transcript
Porschia: [00:00:00] Today, we are talking about mid career 101, how to navigate mid career changes with John Nerrell. John Nerrell has been developing talent for over 25 years. John has served as an educator, instructional coach, supervisor, educational administrator, And a training director today, John owns John narrow coaching LLC, where he helps mid career professionals figure out what’s next for their careers by building a professional GPS.
He is the author of two books and the host of the mid career GPS podcast. John is an avid game show enthusiast and a fan of the television program. The big bang [00:01:00] theory. John lives with his husband in Vienna, Virginia, where they are proud owners of a rescue cat named Amy Farrah Meowler. And John has a lot of personality, as you can tell by that bio.
Hi, John. How are you
John: today? I am well, Portia. Thank you so much. It’s I don’t always get to hear that introduction when I do podcasts. So I appreciate it. You brought a smile to my face. Thank you.
Porschia: Great, great. Well, I’m excited to have you with us to discuss mid career 101. But first, we want to know a little more about you.
So tell me about seven year old john.
John: Uh, I grew up in a small little town in New Jersey called Point Pleasant Beach. I grew up two blocks from the ocean. It was a great place to live. Seven year old John wanted to be these three things. He wanted to be a professional bowler, a game show host, and a [00:02:00] meteorologist.
And I can say that I, I checked the professional bowler box off and still get to do that today. The game show hosting didn’t work out, but I did appear on the game show Chain Reaction, which still airs on the game show network back in like 2005, 2006. We didn’t win, but we still had a great time. And I’m still trying to get on Wheel of Fortune.
And I just have this love of meteorology, but never really pursued it.
Porschia: I love it. That is so interesting. Well, I know John that, uh, the professional bowler, uh, aspirations is a check and maybe the meteorologist came from living on the beach. Is that what you think? Or where did that come
John: from? It, it did.
There was, there was something about how weather changes and, and how fascinating it is, especially throughout the seasons. And of course, growing up, we only had three or four channels on the television set. And my parents would always watch the evening news. [00:03:00] And it was something about the weather person, right?
You know, the weather guy, and now they call them meteorologists. But it was something about them where they just had a different persona. In delivering that part of the news, and I thought, I could do that. That was just something that fascinated me, combining the whole science piece, but also my love for television.
Yeah,
Porschia: I love it. And right now, there’s actually a hurricane going on. And my husband and I were just talking about, you know, the meteorologists and how they cover, you know, all that hurricane coverage. And when those storms come through, the news becomes all about the meteorologist. It seems like so. I could definitely, you know, see that and the game show host.
Um, I think you have a great voice, John. And I think you’ve got a game show host voice, if that makes sense. Um, I, yeah, I think I always wanted to be on like the price is right. I love the price is right. I like Wheel of Fortune too, but uh, Jeopardy was [00:04:00] also in there. So I think those were my kind of top three.
John: Those are great games. So I loved any game where you could play with a celebrity. Okay. So growing up like Password and Pyramid, I always wanted to play with Betty White. Right? There’s something about it. So you just wanted to play with Betty White because you knew you had a really, really good chance of winning.
But there was, there was something that’s always been very, um, fantastical about a game show. And it’s just a great escape and you can sit there and you can play along with whoever’s watching or you can just try to guess things yourself and everything and it’s, it’s always a huge lift when you get Final Jeopardy right at the end of the day.
Porschia: I love it. I love it. I agree. I’m with you. So tell me, John, what was your first
John: job? My first job, I mean, I did the, uh, you know, like I was cutting lawns in my neighborhood and stuff, but I had a really fantastic opportunity when I was 13 years old to [00:05:00] study to be the church organist at my local parish. I had been taking piano lessons from the choir director and there was an opening for a church organist.
And that became my job all throughout high school and for 10 years. So growing up and going through high school, my Saturdays were spent doing a 9, playing at a 9am funeral, 11am funeral, 1 o’clock wedding, 3 o’clock wedding, 5. 30 mass. And I made more money than any other kid in my class. And I got to do something because it was a talent of mine.
And that became something I did off and on while I was in college, and then even my first job after college, I supplemented my income by directing a church choir for two and a half years. Wow.
Porschia: That’s something new that I didn’t know about you, John, and I bet you had all of those, all of those songs memorized.
You know, by, by a certain point in [00:06:00] time there, um, you are definitely a renaissance man and we’re going to get more into that. Um, but tell us about some highlights or pivotal moments in your career. We heard a lot of those job titles, uh, in your bio, some things before you started your
John: business. Having a 25 year career in education was absolutely a highlight, and that started off with me being a middle school mathematics teacher.
I taught in a district in northern New Jersey about 30 minutes outside of New York City, and yes, next to the Real Housewives of New Jersey, which makes for a completely different podcast. I love teaching middle school. There was something about that age group where there were days the kids wanted to be treated more like adults, and other days they wanted to be treated like kids, and if you found the balance, you were really successful in building those rapport and relationships with the students.
And I love teaching math because there was a concrete answer. There were multiple ways to [00:07:00] get the solution, but there was always the quote unquote right answer. And I was doing a lesson one day, and it was a lesson I was really happy about on multiplying fractions. And as I was teaching this lesson, as I had done for several years prior, this voice came into my head and said, You cannot do this for the rest of your life.
And I shook it off, and I thought, Ah, I’m just being foolish. I’m in a great district. I have tenure. I’m making a great salary. And of course, the next day, that voice crept back in the head and said, You cannot do this. And the more I started listening to that voice and getting clearer about where I was unhappy or unfulfilled in my career, it stemmed from this desire to want to do something more and have a bigger reach.
And where my, my life aligned, I had been looking for a new job, I was looking for a supervisor’s position, department chair type position. [00:08:00] I had gotten close. for about three different jobs, but I never got the offer. In the midst of this, I meet my now husband, who is a third generation librarian and based in Washington, D.
- We dated long distance for two years, and I said, I will move down if I get a job and my career pivot at that point was taking a job working for D. C. public schools. I managed a team of 21 instructional coaches across 13 middle schools. It is the defining job in my career path because that’s where everything changed.
It was a hard job. It was a job where I would come home at the end of the day and be super excited about what I saw. And there were other days I came home and I cried. And that set up the chain of events that happened for me to go work at the state superintendent’s office, work at a non profit as a training director that [00:09:00] ultimately led to me opening my business full time.
Wow.
Porschia: You shared a lot there that I just want to touch on one. Thank you for your service as a teacher. My mom is a retired teacher and she taught middle school as well, English and US history. And you’re right. There’s something about that middle school age. And some people say they’re the hardest to teach.
Um, so. I’m just so happy to hear that you had the passion for that. And I think I can see that in some of what you do now. Um, and to your point about that voice that you heard, John, I think you’re probably the second or the third guest that we’ve had on the show where, when they were talking about starting their business or making a career change.
They heard a little voice like that, um, as well. So I think that’s a full circle moment. Now, um, you and I both get to work with clients when they’re hearing those voices, right. And helping them through [00:10:00] those career changes and transitions. Um, it sounds like you might’ve been kind of headed this way, John, but I want to know, what would you say?
Was your biggest career challenge before starting your business?
To
John: clarify, do you, are you looking for like when I first launched my business or before that? Probably before that. Okay. And I ask that clarification because I, I can, I can think very clearly about trying to navigate what that move was going to look like. There was a lot of fear around making such a bold move in my mid forties to go.
Can I really open a business full time? And can I make it? Can I be successful? Can I do what I want to do? I’m very fortunate that I have a loving and supportive spouse who is my biggest cheerleader and everything there. [00:11:00] But there still is that thing at the end of the day where you get up in the morning and you go, is this what I really want to do?
Do I have the Believe in myself to do it. If there was one thing Portia, I wish I had done before I launched the business full time, it would have been around creating more content. I, it was almost like I had to. start the business before I could start putting my voice out there. And it’s one of the things I find it holds a lot of mid career professionals back when they think about how do they play on LinkedIn or how do they demonstrate their expertise or authority within the field.
It’s just about finding ways to get your voice out there so you can contribute, engage, participate, and lead in whatever way you feel best. I wish I had done more of that before I started my business, and it certainly was that challenge I had to overcome once I started. [00:12:00]
Porschia: Yeah, I completely agree. We’ve actually done a couple of episodes about networking and, uh, we’ve recorded one on LinkedIn that kind of goes along with getting your voice out there.
And like you, John, I was not getting my voice out there, um, before I started my business. Um, what do you think are some ways that people can actually do that, you know, in mid
John: career? The first thing that I would offer your listeners, Portia, is engage. You don’t have to go and create all this fresh content and feel like you have to reinvent the wheel.
There is tremendous value by organically growing your network on LinkedIn by engaging with other people’s content. It’s far beyond, as we know, just clicking the reaction button, but putting something in the comment where you tag the author that [00:13:00] lets them know you read it, you watched the video, something stood out for you.
Don’t just put the 100 icon there. Put something that’s meaningful. What did you like about it? Ask them a question. What was a big takeaway or aha? If you start doing that. On a consistent basis, you and I know the algorithm starts working in your favor in terms of who starts seeing your profile and how much more exposure you get.
That takes so much pressure off by feeling like I don’t have to put something out there. I just have to use what’s already out there and add value to it.
Porschia: I love that. I love that. Um, so, John, how does someone know if they are mid career?
John: That’s such a great question because the definition can vary depending on who you [00:14:00] talk to or who you look at.
If we go by the definition of the U. S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics, they will define it as a mid career professional is someone who is 10 years outside of graduation. Now, they don’t mention whether it’s high school or college. Not everybody goes to college, and so you could graduate college at 18 and hit 28, and typically define yourself as a mid career professional.
There are some people that will say, you know, 10 years after you start your first quote unquote real job after college. There’s others who will say break everything down into thirds. I tend to gravitate more toward the definition from the U. S. Department of Labor and Statistics. So typically, we’re looking at someone who is in their later 20s to early 30s, where they just start branching over into that part of their career that we would typically define as mid career.
And of course, with [00:15:00] people working longer, And whatever uncertainty may be happening right now in the economy and I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day who is actually nearing retirement and a little concerned about what’s in their 401k thinking they might have to work a little bit longer.
That window can stretch out a little bit. But we’re really talking about this phase in your career where you’re, you’re building your brand. You are in your, what we typically call your wealth building years, where you’re making the most money during your career path. So let’s think like 30 to 50. Okay.
And let’s use that as an anchor, if we will, for defining mid career. Great.
Porschia: I love that because to your point, I’ve heard a lot of different definitions of mid career. I’ve also heard some people who I think they kind of think about, you know, perhaps the level so to speak. Um, you know, whether [00:16:00] someone’s an executive or not is, is kind of playing into that.
So I really like your definition, I should say, and the parameters that you put around it. Um, so when we think about mid career, John, what are some of the common challenges that you see professionals have?
John: The first thing is their thoughts. Around whether they’re stuck, undervalued or underutilized, they could be in a position where they are organizationally dead ended because nobody is clearing a path for them on the org chart.
There may not be space for them to move into an advanced position, say maybe at the director or senior director type level. And if that’s an aspiration or goal for them, their option is to leverage their talents and expertise and find a job outside of that organization. That [00:17:00] causes a lot of stress and frustration, especially when they’ve been organizationally loyal, they haven’t interviewed in a while, they felt like they were just gonna stay there until the end of their career, and then lo and behold, something changes.
And usually what changes is an internal driver. They want more. They want to make a bigger impact. They want to go do something different. The other challenge that comes up is whether or not they feel fulfilled. Are they doing work where they see a runway that they could do for a good chunk of what’s ever left in their career?
Is it going to make them happy? Does it have meaning and purpose? I say all the time, we have a genius. It’s that thing that we do really well, better than anybody else, and it’s where we’re most valuable to an organization, be it our current employer or a future one. If [00:18:00] you’re not doing the work that lights you up, has meaning, gets you excited to get up in the morning, that is an absolutely great opportunity to figure out what’s missing and start building a plan to get there.
Porschia: Great. Great. Um, yeah, we definitely hear from a lot of people who are feeling, you know, underutilized or underappreciated. I think sometimes, you know, factors into there as well. Um, and think about, you know, exploring opportunities outside of their organization. And yes, that fulfillment is so important. And I think mid career people are starting to get into a routine and that becomes more apparent if they aren’t fulfilled.
Um, so John, what. Are there some special things, I guess, that you’d recommend for mid career professionals that might be different, right, than entry level or late career, uh, professionals?[00:19:00]
John: I’m going to pause here. I’m just going to give that, give that five second pause. There was something I wanted to go back to with the last thing that we talked about, and I can find a way to weave it in if you ask me the question again, please. The
Porschia: previous question
John: or the okay, because what I forgot to talk about was like when they they’re raising their family and they’re taking care of their parents as well.
That’s another challenge. Yeah.
Porschia: Yeah, that’s it. It was what are some of the common challenges you see mid career professionals have?
John: One of the other challenges that we absolutely want to put a spotlight on here is that there are things going on outside of work that are a huge challenge as well. Now those challenges can bring a lot of joy as well. Things like raising your family and having soccer games and baseball games and play practices and all those things to go to.[00:20:00]
But the other thing about mid career Portia that we have to acknowledge is that a lot of the clients we work with who are at mid career may also be dealing with aging parents. And then having to take them to doctor’s appointments or to take care of in some way, shape, or form. And so now they’re really in this quintessential stuck in the middle type position.
They’re the parent, but they’re caregivers to their kids as well as to their parents. All of that going on, they’re working a job that is taking 40 to 50 hours of their week. and the mental stress and pressure because they want to do a good job. They want to be valuable. They don’t want to mess up and all of those things come into play where they’re giving and giving and giving and they’re not taking care of themselves as well as they can be.
whether it be physically or mentally. And that can be a huge challenge at mid career [00:21:00] when everybody else comes first and you lose yourself in the process. Yeah, I
Porschia: completely agree. And I hear that a lot. Um, from, Most of our clients who are mid career and especially, uh, the women and the moms that we have in our community where, you know, you throw your husband in there and then the kids and the, the parents and, um, all of that, you know, becomes a balancing act.
Uh, one thing I see a lot, John, and I’m interested to know if you do as well, I think a lot of mid career professionals. Um, that come to us are now telling me that they have a preference for remote work because of just what you mentioned, right? Trying to balance all of those plates. Are you seeing that as well?
John: Absolutely. What we have seen over the last few years with the pandemic has given people an opportunity to reevaluate what their work situation is like. There was a [00:22:00] story on the news this morning where General Motors is actually delaying their return to worksite plan until January because of employee pushback.
And these are things that both employers and employees are going to have to face in the upcoming months and years in terms of what’s the ideal fit for them. As an employee, they have a certain amount, a level of control in terms of what they feel is best for them. If their employer is saying, you’re all coming back to the work site five days a week, and you’re like, eh, that doesn’t really work for me, you should probably be looking for another job.
Yeah,
Porschia: absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I’d say probably, uh, about 40% of the, the, uh, prospective coaching clients that I talked to are just that they’re wanting remote for one of those reasons. And they’re actively, um, you know, looking for remote [00:23:00] opportunities. Um, so I think that’s a good segue here, John.
You know, what is some advice that you would give to someone mid career who wants to make a career change?
John: The first thing I would offer to them is take some time being really clear about what it is that you want to do. Are you looking to stay in the same industry? Are you thinking about a lateral or an up level in terms of your promotion?
Or are you thinking that this is an opportunity for you to pivot and do something different? Once you have clarity around that, get really good at telling your story. Why are you valuable? How are you going to help someone? What are you going to help them do? And why is it that they want to bring you in as that value add that sets you apart from everybody else?
The last thing I would offer is [00:24:00] figure out how best to use your time. You and I have formed a fantastic partnership in the sense that we know that many mid career professionals are busy and they’re overwhelmed and they’re not expert resume writers, which is why we get their resume done through everybody at Fly High Coaching.
with my clients because it just takes that pressure off. You provide such a fantastic service, be it the resume writing, helping them with their LinkedIn profile. Let them focus on things like, and you do all this as well too, if you need to get better at telling your story, work on that. If you need an updated resume, hire that out.
That will, the money you will save in the time, effort, and energy that that takes will reap its rewards tenfold above and beyond year after year when you land that job that you really love because you’re clear about what you want to do, your [00:25:00] storytelling is spot on, people get interested in who you are and what you do.
And all the other things you need to help you with a career transition are done and reflect that. I
Porschia: completely agree, John. And yeah, definitely. Our partnership, I think, is, uh, you know, so special. And during that mid career change, uh, you really want to focus, like you said, on getting clear about who you are, what you do, uh, your zone of genius.
Like you mentioned, and, uh, I think outsource some of the other things and then work with an unbiased person. And so that’s something that comes up a lot when I talk to people. I say, you know what, your, your family members and your friends, uh, they can be great. They can support you, but working with, you know, Professional coach like you, John, or a coaching firm like ours or some other coach can just be great because generally this person should be [00:26:00] unbiased and really just have your, um, goals in mind, right?
And so I think that’s really important when you’re talking about a change and that uncertainty that comes up.
John: I agree. I know when I, when I start working with a client and I’ll say to them, we’re going to go ahead and get your resume done. I see their shoulders drop. Like, it takes that pressure off, they’re like, Oh, I don’t have to worry.
No! That’s what we do. We’re gonna get that taken care of and then we’re gonna focus on the other things to make you better. Right? In addition to that. Um. I, I, I shared with you previously, but one of the best things I ever did in my career was getting my resume professionally written. It, it was an investment that I took that resume and I used that for the next three jobs I landed after.
One of the best things I ever did in my career.
Porschia: Yeah. Yeah. Professional resume writing, um, can really transform, I think [00:27:00] people’s opinion of themselves. Right. And then obviously to have that professional branding to, to land, you know, that next opportunity. One thing I want to ask you about, John, because we see this a lot.
Um, a lot of people might not. think that a career change is possible because they don’t have a lot of experience in the area that they want to transition to. So what can professionals and executives do to really help them during that mid career transition if they’re trying to start something
John: new? I appreciate that question so much for this very reason.
It’s about getting them out of their own heads. So one of the things I’d offer here is find people within your network who are either doing the work you want to do or know someone who is doing the work you want to do and schedule a 15 minute informational interview. prep three questions that you want to ask them [00:28:00] that are going to help inform your decision moving forward.
And there’s a lot of things that people can do as a way to say thank you in this regard. You can endorse them for some skills on their LinkedIn profile. You could say, look, if you’re willing 15 minute call today, I’ll buy coffee and you send them a 10 Starbucks gift card. There are things like that, that having an informational interview when you’re targeted in your questions you want to ask will help inform your decisions so much more.
And one of the questions should be based on what I have shared with you today about the current work I’m doing and what I want to be doing in the future. gaps do you believe I need to address to make me a stronger candidate when I am ready to apply? And then don’t say anything. Your job, then, is [00:29:00] to take notes and listen.
And you can even give them that question ahead of time, but ask questions with greater intention so you get better information back. Yeah, um,
Porschia: I completely agree. I think informational interviews are so important, and we just Not too long ago had a client spotlight and one of, um, our previous clients talked quite a bit about how she had a lot of those informational interviews as she was trying to make a career transition.
Uh, and she was mid-career as well. I guess what we would consider maybe the tail end of early to mid-career, um, Absolutely. And I love that question that you mentioned, John, because, uh, there’s a variation of that question. I sometimes recommend people ask during an interview, right? They might ask that recruiter or that hiring manager something along the lines of, um, you know, is there anything about my background or my experience, um, that you have questions about or, um, you [00:30:00] know,
Think that I might need extra, you know, I’m trying to remember exactly how I ask it. I might say anything about my background that you have questions about or that you think I could grow in, you know, in terms of being a fit for this job and you’re trying to kind of figure out where they think you need help or where they think that you’re lacking so you can address that in the interview.
So I think that’s a great point to bring up in an informational interview as well.
John: The, the power of those questions, regardless of situation, is that it makes us as the asker very vulnerable. And it gives us that information that we need to inform those decisions moving forward. And, and the other thing I’d offer too is, especially in the informational realm, You’ve got to ask multiple people, you’ve got to talk to, you can’t just be like, okay, someone validated me, I’m fine, I don’t have to, [00:31:00] you’ve got to, five to ten people that are going to answer those questions for you that allow you to take a step back and go, based on what I have heard, How viable is this pivot for me and then decide what you want to do after that.
Mm
Porschia: hmm. Yeah, I, I completely agree. I think my client mentioned that she had six people that she asked. And then to add on to that, I want to remind people that these five to 10 people that you ask, ideally it’s best if they’re not family members and close friends, right? Because those people are biased, even if they were in the same industry that you’re trying to pivot to, or, you know, they have some overlap.
there. You really want to kind of get out of your normal circle, people who know you very well. Um, and Um, you know, look more at perhaps colleagues, um, and that one’s kind of iffy, but colleagues, mentors, coaches, um, other connections that you find on LinkedIn. Um, but you really [00:32:00] want that kind of outside unbiased opinion.
John: I completely agree with you. Yeah.
Porschia: So John, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see mid career professionals and executives
John: make? Yeah. Thank you.
I’m going to phrase this and start by saying this is a fun one, and I not, but fun in the sense of as coaches, this is how we get to help people in that. One of the biggest mistakes mid career professionals make is they think they know what their brand and reputation is versus knowing what their brand and reputation is.
And that’s pivotal because when you’re thinking about promotional opportunities or advancement or even if you’re thinking about pivoting outside of the organization, you have to know what people are saying about you. It comes back to them being vulnerable again. There, it’s one thing when somebody will [00:33:00] say, I think I’m a good leader because I’m a good communicator.
I want to know. I don’t want you to think that. I want you to know that you have examples and tangibles of where your leadership has been demonstrated by people on your team that they can say, Yeah, you’re a great communicator because on such and such a date. Or with this client, I saw you do this.
Knowing your brand and reputation is one of the biggest things mid career professionals need to know. It’s one of the biggest mistakes they make. They’re just uncertain about it. Yeah, yeah.
Porschia: Um, so when it comes to brand and reputation, um, what aspects of brand? So we’ve kind of talked about resumes and LinkedIn, um, already, but what are some other areas or, or you can, you know, elaborate on those where you see people, maybe they’re a little [00:34:00] confused, um, or just kind of unaware of, you know, their reputation and kind of what they are presenting?
John: If anyone is listening where they are currently leading a team or aspire to lead a team, you have to ask what people are seeing in your leadership. It’s why things like 360 assessments are so powerful, but not everybody gets to do them. Typically, they’re only reserved for C suite and executive levels.
You gotta ask. Jeff Bezos has this great definition, which is, your brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room. You gotta find out what people are saying. I had a situation in my career, Portia, where I was leading a team, we were getting great results, I was not getting promoted. And when I started asking why, what came back to me were things like, they think you’re too [00:35:00] soft.
they think you’re too nice. And I remember being very angry at that when I first heard about it because it was so different than what I was projecting. I mean, I guess I was being nice, I was projecting and things like that. I also had to have some difficult conversations where we terminated people for poor performance.
And you have to show up in a certain way. But I always, I always said, I would, I would rather terminate somebody in a way that I wish it were done to me, if the roles were reversed. Because that way then I can ensure things were done fairly. and legally. And when you hear things that come back about your brand that are not aligned to what you believe is out there, it’s an opportunity for you to figure out, do I have control in changing the brand where I am, or is my move out?
How much do you want to be invested [00:36:00] in that? Having a clear and clean story is another way you can promote and protect your brand when you’re networking and when you’re interviewing. So let’s take an example when you’re networking. When somebody says to you, what do you do? Give them a sentence or two that clearly defines what it is that you do, who you help, what you help them do specifically.
Don’t tell them your title. Give them something that is going to be of interest to them so they can have a conversation with you. And as you go through that networking conversation, figure out how you can help them. Give first, and so make that part of your brand. You will be far more memorable in that way.
Because people will start seeing you as things like a connector and, and those are things that can help protect and promote your [00:37:00] brand as you move forward. Mm.
Porschia: A lot of, uh, valuable gems there. I hope people caught, uh, those things. I want to, you know, want to acknowledge you, John, and say thank you for sharing about your personal experience when you were getting that feedback, um, at work about yourself.
Um. Thank you You’re right. I have seen the same thing where a lot of our clients, if they are not executives, they have not had that 360 assessment. And that’s another reason why we offer those to our clients, um, at all levels to, to get that kind of feedback because you’re right. A lot of times people don’t necessarily tell you those sorts of things, um, at all.
So you think you might think that your personal brand or your professional brand is one thing and other people, uh, think of you in a different way. Um, great, great feedback there, John. Um, so tell us more about your business, John Narrow Coaching. [00:38:00]
John: I help mid career professionals who feel stuck, undervalued, or underutilized, and I help them show up to find a job they love or love the job they have.
And I help them do that by building a mid career GPS that is rooted in four key steps. It’s about helping them prepare for their upcoming career transition. It’s about positioning them strategically in the marketplace. It’s about helping them promote who they are and what they do. And then it also is about how they choose to show up.
I talk a lot about what it means to show up and it, it resonates very well with a mid career audience in part. It’s deeply rooted in some personal events, but also some professional events. And one of them is, I would hear people say to me all the time, I need to show up differently. Well, what does that look like?
It’s like when people come into an interview and they say you need to hire me because I’m a team player. And when I hired talent, I would always say, can you tell me how you play on a team? Cause I’m not sure we play [00:39:00] the same way. We have to be specific in that regard. So I coach around six specific strategies about showing up, which are setting ground rules, having intentional conversations, owning where you are, welcoming new opportunities, using your genius, protecting and promoting your brand.
All of those things come together in building their mid career GPS so they can move competently and confidently to whatever is next. I
Porschia: love it. I love it. You started, I, you know, talking about this already, but just share more about your books and your podcast.
John: Thank you for that. So the first book I wrote was called show up six strategies to lead a more energetic and impactful career The first part of the book is very personal it’s memoir based about what it has meant for me to show up and for any of your listeners or Who are members of the LGBTQ plus community or their allies of that community?
It is my [00:40:00] coming out story and what that has all meant. And then the back part of the book are the show up six strategies I just outlined. When I had the desire to write a second book, and it came in part during what was going on with the pandemic and everything, I wanted to write a second book. that was very tactical and strategic, a step by step guide, if you will, to help that mid career professional who hasn’t looked for a job in a while or is unsure about where to start.
They can pick up my book and get fed about all of the different steps in building their mid career GPS on their own to help them do that. And then I created the podcast in January of 21 as we’re getting ready to go into 23 already. It’s hard to believe I’m wrapping up year two, but I know, thank you. I created the podcast because I wanted content out there specifically for mid career professionals, whether it be about their leadership.
journey, [00:41:00] navigating a career transition. And so there are episodes where I share information and there are other times when I have incredible guests like you who come on and share a particular part about that mid career journey. You were on recently to talk about, um, resumes and resume tips for mid career professionals.
It is one of my most listened to episodes, and I’m so grateful for you for coming on and people getting to, to hear from you and, and all the great stuff you and your team have to offer.
Porschia: Well, thank you for sharing about your books, John. You know that I have, uh, you know, read and looked, uh, them over. I don’t think I read Show Up, but I know it’s great because I’ve, I’ve read about it.
Uh, and the podcast. Yes. Thank you for having me on. I really enjoy your audience. Uh, and I think the topic really resonated with people. Um, so we’re going to be providing, you know, a link to your website and your other social channels and our show notes so people can find you online. But what is the [00:42:00] best way for someone to get in touch with you?
John: Easiest thing is connect with me on LinkedIn. I would love to get a connection request that says you heard me on your podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn. There’s lots of great things right there on LinkedIn as well, especially if you go to my featured section. I’ve got some free resources that are there.
The other thing is go to my website at johnnerrell. com, N E R A L. Or you can just email me at john at johnnerrell. com. But whether you connect with me there, you follow the Mid Career GPS podcast, I look forward to connecting with your listeners whatever way possible.
Porschia: Great. And John, I love to ask all of our guests this question.
And for you, I really want to know, you know, your thoughts about this being another coach who’s very experienced. Um, how do you think executives or professionals can get a positive edge in their career?[00:43:00]
John: Know your value. Know why what you do is needed and integral to the basic function of the organization. Know where you stand out. Know where you’re different. And know why you’re needed. Those are all things that make you valuable. It doesn’t matter what it is that you do, whether you are a COO, CFO, or you’re an administrative assistant, whatever your role is, there is something you do that sets you apart from everybody else.
When you are clear and you know your value and you can clearly and cleanly communicate that, you are Golden people will want you because of that value and expertise and the energy you create. And that is one of the best things to help you advance your career [00:44:00] and move it forward at whatever level you are.
Yes,
Porschia: definitely know your value. Uh, John, you have shared a lot of wisdom. Um, with us today, and I’m sure that our listeners can use it to be more confident in their careers. And then also their career changes. We appreciate you being with us,
John: Portia. Thank you so very much for having me on your podcast. And as always, my sincere appreciation, gratitude to you and everyone at fly high coaching.
Thank you, John.
